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[Solved] Maggio Embouchure

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Topic starter

Hi Estela,

I'm still struggling with my embouchure. I'm still not satisfied with it. My goal is to use a Maggio pedal c embouchure and then keep it the same, without changing anything, throughout the whole register to at least c above the staff.

The pedal C was real tough for me to play. I used a tone generator for tuning so I could be certain to play the pedal C and not random notes. After I have ultimately managed to play the pedal C I tried to ascend without changing the embouchure.

I don't want to play false pedal notes like F, E, Eb, D, and Db. If I play them I am afraid to ruin my Maggio pedal C embouchure. I only try to play true pedal tones like pedal C.

For the moment I set my Maggio embouchure in the following way (I attach a file showing how I do it):

Tomorrow, eventually, I will send you a file demonstrating how it, for the moment, sounds like on my cornet.

  1. I roll my lower lip in against my teeth. Lips in a forward position.
  2. Whistle.
  3. Lips together, say "mmm" so the whistle stops.
  4. I put my visulizer or mouthpiece on the lips so the rim is just above the red part of the upper lip.

Grateful for comments.

Best Wishes!

Ulf

 

8 Answers
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Hi Ulf,

See my audio response below. Also, if you'd like to do a private lesson to settle any doubts you can do so here https://www.trumpetheadquarters.com/private-trumpet-lessons/

 -Estela

FLY Topic starter 01/12/2020 11:20 am

@trumpetheadquarters
Thanks for your help.
You are very kind.
I realy appriciate your help.
/Ulf

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Topic starter

Now I have recorded some sound in my laboratory situated in my attic, se attached file.
Please note that I have only practice Louis Maggio system for 2 weeks so I think that it will work.

Carlton MacBeth wrote in his book "Original Louis Maggio system for Brass":
"These studies also blow the concept that it takes a lifetime to learn to play a brass instrument, It doesn't work that way. All that is necessary is an hour and a half to two hours a day,seven days a week for five full weeks,plenty of rest and a constant awareness of these basic principles."

Grateful for comments.

Best Wishes!

Ulf

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Topic starter

I don't want to play any music before I am satisfied with the embouchure and technique to play high notes.

I think that the secret to play high notes are to master the low notes. So every day I practice flexibility with true pedal notes.

Attach you find a video showing how I practice lip slurs with true pedal notes over and over again.

/Ulf

TrumpetHeadquarters 16/12/2020 2:07 am

@fly
I would advice against putting yourself in a box. Trumpet playing is a dynamic thing and so a flexible approach is necessary. Perfecting fundamentals is a LIFE LONG PROCESS. If you deny yourself music until you have perfected your embouchure, range and technique, you will never play. Players continue to learn after 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 years.
Just ask Doc Severinsen!

Play music Ulf. That is my advice. Play music.

-Estela

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Topic starter

Hi Estela,

I'm now convinced that it is possible for us students to attain a perfect Maggio embouchure if we practice your lessons Intermediate lesson #11 (Bending Exercises) and Advanced lesson #2 (Pedal Notes).

Up to now I can get through with bending exercises (Intermediate Lesson #11) controlled with my tuner.

But it is very difficult for me to play pedal notes, in spite of that I could play bending execises. I can only manage to play down to pedal F, Pedal E and Pedal E2 with fingering 123 in advanced lesson #2.

Estela how should I proceed? Do you have any further tricks?

/Ulf

TrumpetHeadquarters 03/01/2021 11:11 pm

If you can play pedal F, then you must continue to play pedal F as best as you can and continue doing the bending exercises. It is a long process. I find it usually takes students about 8 months to a year of bending and pedal tones to expand the pedal range down to Pedal C clearly. The trick, honestly, is the bending onto of daily fundamentals that focus on AIR FLOW 🙂

-Estela

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Topic starter

Hi Estela,

Now I can play pedaltones so they sounds correct.

I manage to do it with the use of syllables. For the pedal register I use the syllable "oh".

However I have still problem with the note pedal C. I can't play it open I have to use fingering 123.

/Ulf

TrumpetHeadquarters 18/01/2021 4:41 pm

That's ok, my friend who is a professional and has been playing for over 30 years couldn't plait open either. Until a few weeks ago when I helped him. You can see my mini lesson on Instagram here with a couple tips on how to get there 🙂 -Estela

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CHyPzuUAHwv/?igshid=9cl25oi1tyu9

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Topic starter

Hi Estela,

I practice the false tones all the way down to F# - C# every day. It isn't yet possible for me to play pedalC.

I suppose that I must practice a lot to strenghten my embouchure if it should be possible for me to play that damned note pedalC.

What do you think about this recommendation given by Dan Leeman?

"Starting to produce pedal tones

Much of the technique needed to produce pedal tones depends on the ability to bend pitch. To practice this, I think it makes sense to start in a "feel good" range of the trumpet, rather than starting with our lowest notes possible.

Starting on a low C (not pedal C, just plain ol' low C), slur down to the B one half step below, using the appropriate second valve. Listen carefully to the intonation of the pitch.

Now in the next step, you're going to do the same thing, slurring from C to B, however, rather than using your valve to lock the note in place, keep the valves open, using only your embouchure and air adjustment to play the B. Feels and sounds kind of weird, right?

You can keep descending chromatically, going one set of half steps at a time, alternating between valving and lipping down the note. When you go from F# to F, there is no fingering to play low F, and this is where you start to let your embouchure take over.

It can also be helpful to practice this in fourths, to be able to get a more solid feeling of descending movement. It can be tricky going from F to E in our false tones, so it would make more sense to descend Bb -> F and A -> E to keep the same finger combinations in check.

Once you have spent time practicing the false tones all the way down to F# -> C#, the low C, which is our first true pedal tone, should more clearly pop out than the false tones. That's because this is a true harmonic, rather than these false tones where we have been entirely resonant on our embouchure to do the hard work.

Quick tips:

  1. Keep consistent air moving throughout the instrument
  2. Don't roll your lips or do anything unnatural with them
  3. Think of an "ah" sound as you descend
  4. For the true pedals (not the false tones, use the same fingerings as you do from C -> F# 0, 2, 1, 12, etc."

Best Wishes

Ulf

TrumpetHeadquarters 25/01/2021 5:41 pm

Yes to all of it. These are the concepts I cover in detail and in a more spread manner in Intermediate lesson #11 and Advanced lesson #2. Good stuff.

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How important are pedal notes I have never seen trumpet music with pedal notes written in it. Should I be practicing pedal notes.     

FLY Topic starter 24/01/2021 11:30 am

Hi Roger,
Estela has to explain why it is benificial to play those bluddy pedal notes.

I think, if you play them corectly, it will strengthen your embouchure and form it in an optimal way.

/Ulf

TrumpetHeadquarters 25/01/2021 5:46 pm

@roger1982 Pedal notes are good for gaining more control over the instrument, consequently aiding in many aspects of playing. However, it starts with bending at the intermediate level and slowly morphs into pedal tones at the advanced level. Starting pedals too early is counterproductive because although you maybe you could play them 1) you will not see how they help yet and 2) you could be straining and working too hard to achieve them. It's like buying an $800 knife as a beginner cook. The beginner cook will think it's nice, and be able to cook with it, but the advance cook with see many small aspects and nuances in the knife and how they aid in cooking.

Pedal tones are a calisthenic exercise. We never see pedal tones in written music, with the expection of a few modern pieces.

If you want to learn about them though I cover bending in Intermediate #11 and pedals in Advanced #2.

-Estela

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Topic starter

Hi Estela,

I think that is beneficial for me to train the embouchure using advanced lesson #2 "pedal notes, item A" and also bending from low C to pedalC as you show in the mini lessons for playing pedalC open.

It realy feels at my lip corners and I get a lot of exercise pain.

/Ulf

TrumpetHeadquarters 01/02/2021 5:39 pm

@fly Glad it's working for you Ulf!

-Estela

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